Blizzhackers

If you've ever read any scene NFO's, you'll probably notice a lot of hate for Bittorrent and any P2P in general.


There's one from a Loki nfo.

I've used P2P a fuckton I know, but I have to say they do have a point, P2P hurts a lot of people.

Firstly, it hurts the original media creators, face it, if Lost episodes weren't on the internet, more people would watch it (although not that many). While content creators losses are not nearly as big as they claim, it still does hurt the creators.

I think the people that are really getting fucked over though are the sceners. If scene releases of Games/TV/movies never left the scene, there would be no FBI heat on the scene (besides that brought on by asian pirates).

The way I see it the VCD scene is getting fucked the most, someone takes a huge risk sneaking a camera into a theater in the first place, then upload it, time is spent encoding it and such, and it's released into the scene, the scene group intends for their release to not be spread past the scene.

At this point some member of the scene (probably someone who's useless, like a trader/curry) leaks it to P2P, now tons of people download it, causing FBI attention to be brought to the original group.

Yet p2p noobs still "thank" the release group in their torrent comments, even though there the ones that are leading to their possible imprisonment.

I think it should be legal to make copies of media you've purchased, but downloading should be illegal. People that take huge risks (camming) or use amazing skills (cracking) shouldn't have to be imprisoned because their work is leaked.

I know, since I'd guess ALL of the people on this site use p2p or are not in the scene, you'll be against this, it's a debate though, so it's expected

EDIT:

Here's a little explination for my change of heart about p2p:

Recently there were a lot of busts in the scene, a few people I knew are most likely going to serve jail time. It sucks to know that this could happen to me, and to know that these people that helped me are facing prison. While p2pers that don't contribute shit except giving attention to the scene get all their warez for free from some BT site.

I've always been against BT sites that aren't totally ad free/donation free. Making money off a BT site is like a double negative, it's stealing from both the scene and the content creators.

How is this "Not a piracy/legality debate" because it sure sounds like one to me. Are you just worried that people will go off on a tangent of flames about legality? If so, then just I-MOD them.

Is this part a joke? So the people actually committing the crime and releasing the stolen media to other people shouldn't be held accountable? If they don't want to get in trouble for pirating, don't pirate.

That would be like if someone made a bunch of fake money and used the fake money, and only gave some of the fake money to his friends. Then one of the friends gave out the fake money to more people, and since it's widespred the gov. goes after the source of the fake money.

Same with drugs, the police go after drug dealers more than drug users.

Yes, they should be held accountable, but the Feds wouldn't be going after them if p2p didn't exist. If cammers stopped p2p would cry like bitches, i'd like to see the p2p scene contribute anything worthwhile.

Scenes are frequently given far too much credit... honestly, if I wanted to cam a movie, I have all the tools I'd need... Used to be a projector tech at a local theater... It wouldn't be hard to go undetected... Almost anyone could work a digital cam and the transfer programs/encoders...

As for cracking... most of the "cracks" out there that they provide are single keys, easily obtained via a brute force attack, or off an actual package...

I'm not saying there aren't scenes filled with highly skilled individuals... just that there are a lot of ego inflated posers in the mix...

Don't cry for them... if they get caught, its their own fault...

To get a decent cam you need a PAL video camera (not ntsc shit) and if you want a TS, good direct audio.

And cracking is far more than brute forcing, or else starforce and other commercial protections wouldn't take so long.

Why do you think a good part of people upload? To try to get some recognition. If you spread stuff, and doesnt give credit, youre denying the risk that the uploader took, almost like stealing their work credit. Nah-nah.

Uploaders to torrent sites aren't shit, and they don't take a risk, they're just people that like to get a bunch of "lol thx" from random people on the internet.

What's the debate here? Whether or not people should download scene releases? Whether p2p hurts people beyond the obvious?

This sounds like one guy who knows a guy in the scene telling everybody that they better watch out cause his buddy is pissed. My scene friend could kick your scene friend's ass.

It's about P2P downloading, I'm against it because I think it hurts media and the scene, but someone who is for it would say everyone has the right to listen to music for free or blah blah.

So you're not arguing the initial theft, but the spread of the burgled goods? It's a risk that they take when giving it to anybody else, they know that. If they're blaming p2p for being caught then they're as childish as they come.

When they release it they want to stay within a confined group of people, but of course some useless scener (currier or something) leaks it, and suddenly they've got tons of attention they didn't want. It turns serious when people start going to prison because thousands of p2p noobs wanted to download The.Shaggy.Dog.CAM.VCD-whatevergroup . They can only get so secure, it only takes one fed to get the ip address to a site. I've contributed a share to the scene, and I would still love to contribute to the scene, but I don't because of the new risk of being busted because of the new attention of the piracy scene (yes it existed in the past, but not to such a level).

Atleast in the scene, people that download a release have contributed something, while p2p downloaders don't contribute anything.

My hope is that the FBI will go after the big BT trackers (or get diplimatic power to take those in .NL down), and I can't see p2p being legal for that much longer.

the scene is the only real reason that p2p exists, hence the FBI is obviously going to put the most effort into arresting the people that constitute the scene. The sceners take a huge risk by doing something illegal, and they are well aware of that. Just like p2p'ers take a risk by sharing what they've already downloaded, so dont be so fucking selfrighteous and pompous. (Yes, there is a huge risk involved in simply sharing ur warez. Last year i received a letter in the mail, from what is in denmark known as AntiPiratGruppen (antipiracy association), saying i was getting sued for $50,000)

Besides, some of ur statements are ludacris, since many groups obviously still want to contribute to p2p-society, and the groups that dont will just have to learn to know who to trust.

Contributing in the scene is thousands of times moe dangerous than seeding on bittorrent, wow, a letter, compared to prison time and huge fines. I recieved a letter a few years back too, and I wouldn't even think of comparing it to anything that requires going to court (Wierd story, i downloaded a HL2 Keygen 2 months before it's release, i knew it was going to be fake, but I was curious what it was, when they sent me the letter, I emailed Gabe Newell and he said he'd help me if they did take it seriously).

P2Pers don't do anything, leaving your computer on to seed isn't help or contributing. Show one group that says in their nfo they support P2P... if you can even find one I guarantee it's going to be a shitty group that you wouldn't even download anything they released (spanish MP3 or someshit).

In the end, P2Pers take no risk, contribute nothing, and still get warez.

why would u feel the need to mock me? I avoided getting personal, and it seemed like u actually wanted to lead a discussion on a level a few notches higher than that of an infant, but i guess i was wrong.

in case u dont consider a $50,000 lawsuit, that u are practically bound to lose, a "huge bill", good for you.. sadly, i was but 17 years old at the time, and im telling u, this was no fun whatsoever.

Im not saying that the groups of the scene necessarily condone the use of p2p-networks, and if u actually read through my post, u would probably notice, that i in no way contradicted ur thesis of the sceners running greater risks than ur socalled leechers.
Even so, u may take note, that there are still races going on between the groups, of who can release x movie/game first. If this race is supposed to be decided by who can release to the sceners themselves first, whereafter the releases are leaked, you might be right. If that is the case, this particular line of argumentation will be disregarded.